@ckeen @kensanata @freakazoid Yeah, pretty much.

Except that the mesh is pretty weak. The nodes are rarely connected directly with one another. In my experiments so far, the data's mostly carried back and forth by people connecting to one node, syncing some content locally, connecting to another node, and bidirectionally syncing changes.

It'd work with persistent connections, too. Heck, it'd hopefully work over dialup.

But the important bit, for me, is that it isn't the internet.

@ajroach42 @freakazoid @kensanata That's the same model secure scuttlebutt works on. Internet is fine but nodes will find each other through other means (mdns) or you can feed in a feed broutht on a usb stick..

@ckeen @kensanata @freakazoid Yep!

And i like scuttlebut, aside from it being in node.

I've been using Dat, which I think is a little closer to what I want (but it is also written in node, with the added problem of the primary browser being an electron app) (http://ajroach42.com/steps-towards-a-web-without-the-internet/)

Dat is based, in part, on ideas from SSB.

@ajroach42 @freakazoid @kensanata Yes, node... At least you can run the server and get away with a frontend made for dillo...

There's an implementation effort ongoing in go but that will take a while...

@ckeen @kensanata @freakazoid Except that if you're using a non-electron front-end, you're browsing in plaintext.

If you run the server on the server and on your local machine, that's not a big deal (but it still precludes most mobile devices.)

@ajroach42 @freakazoid @kensanata Why plaintext? patchfoo has images and markdown rendering and all..

@ckeen @kensanata @freakazoid Sorry, I meant to say "cleartext"

@ajroach42 @freakazoid @kensanata Ah, well it is meant as a local interface. However I have successfully forwarded the port through ssh or a tor hidden service.

@ckeen @kensanata @freakazoid SSB is meant as a local service, yeah. That's one of it's biggest differences from what I'm trying to put together.

I deal with the same issue in Dat though. You can browse each server-node over Dat (with encryption) or over HTTP (without encryption) and, right now, mobile devices only work with http.

@ajroach42 @freakazoid @kensanata How does DAT support your use case of nodes carried around? I thought that DAT works more like bittorrent in that regard that it uses a DHT for routing and one has to fetch the content everytime again?

@ckeen @kensanata @freakazoid I'm not sure I follow the question.

Right now, if you're running Beaker Browser, you are both a server and a browser for Dat.

Couple that with some actual servers that peer the Dat files over Dat and serve them over local HTTP, and bob's your uncle.

Unless I've missed something in your question?

@alphakamp @ckeen @kensanata @freakazoid I have this conversation, it seems, every day. :-D

Node applications tend to be difficult to install/maintain because node changes pretty quickly and NPM is a trashfire.

Node apps also tend to underperform compared to other languages on underpowered hardware (but YMMV there)

Plus, for this project specifically, I need to target mobile. Node *can* run on mobile devices, but it doesn't work well, and the results leave a lot to be desired.

@ajroach42 @freakazoid @kensanata @alphakamp I am sorry if I gave the impression of trying to convince you or something like that. I don't.

@alphakamp

In the case of SSB and Dat, You're also dealing with Electron, which is just as bad/or even worse.

@ionincognito @ckeen @kensanata @freakazoid this comes up every time I mention the project, but it would almost certainly be illegal to do what I want to do over anything other than unlicensed spectrum.

I did some basic experimentation with 900MhZ RF, and that works, as long as you have line of site.

But any actual packet radio couldn't be encrypted, and would require a licenced operator.

@ionincognito @ckeen @kensanata @freakazoid this comes up every time I mention the project, but it would almost certainly be illegal to do what I want to do over anything other than unlicensed spectrum.

I did some basic experimentation with 900MhZ RF, and that works, as long as you have line of site.

But any actual packet radio couldn't be encrypted, and would require a licenced operator.

@ionincognito @ckeen @kensanata @freakazoid this comes up every time I mention the project, but it would almost certainly be illegal to do what I want to do over anything other than unlicensed spectrum.

I did some basic experimentation with 900MhZ RF, and that works, as long as you have line of site.

But any actual packet radio couldn't be encrypted, and would require a license.

@ionincognito @ckeen @kensanata @freakazoid Still illegal, but closer to what I had in mind.

You're also envisioning an always on/always connected network.

There's no need for that.

@ajroach42 @kensanata @ckeen @ionincognito You just need to cover enough area that there's good circulation of users to carry data back and forth. Open WiFi networks with a particular network name and a captive portal seem like the best option for discovery and maximizing the number of potential users. Plus Android software for moving data around.

@ionincognito @ckeen @kensanata @ajroach42 900 MHz LoRa seems ideal for bridging WiFi networks together to cover a larger area. Kind of ironic to be using the exact inverse of what Ricochet did, with 900 MHz for the modems and 2.4 GHz for the uplinks, though it's more inline with the typical structure of the Internet, with fast LANs and slow WANs.

@freakazoid @ionincognito @ckeen @kensanata Exactly. Especially on the Android Software.