Alright, I'm setting up our tilde, finally.

I think I've got the apache ./~ config figured out, I've done that half a dozen times before, but I need to remember how to set up local only email, IRC, and ... uhhh...

What other software and configs are essential for a tilde generally, and oen targeted at new users specifically?

@Ethancdavenport Yeah, I figured we'd at least do local IRC, maybe even NNTP.

I gotta figure out how iOS users can connect to an onion hosted IRC server from mobile.

@ajroach42 @Ethancdavenport I always just use an ssh to log into UNIX systems from my phone. Prompt and Termius are the ones I've used lately.

@mdhughes right, but this server won't have a public domain name or ip address, just an onion address. I dunno how to get an ssh connection to an onion address on an iPhone.

I'll figure it out, but I haven't yet.

@ajroach42 @mdhughes

That's about as This Modern World as anything that I've heard about this month.

I have a 90-year-old friend. I ask him, "How would you explain the things that are usual now to yourself as a youth? The vocabulary wouldn't exist." He shrugs and goes back to debugging hplip drivers for ElementaryOS so that both wifi and USB devices will work as he makes mobile calls using Google Fi on his Android and tries to stay under the data limit.

@djsundog I would love a MUD.

I have tried and failed to go down this road in the past.

@djsundog That's fair.

It hasn't been that long since I failed to understand MUDs though.

It's possible the docs are better now.

@ajroach42 oh shit, now I get to pontificate about abstract MU* concepts and architectures with concrete historical examples along with critiques one of these days at the 'space, sweeeeeeet!

@djsundog Hello yes I would love to join in this conversation please and thank you.

/ @ajroach42

@djsundog Which means I guess I have to finally make the trek all the way up to Ellijay like I keep sayin' I'm gonna one of these days.

/ @ajroach42

@ajroach42 @djsundog Yeah, I've set up a MUD a few years back, but wasn't happy with the maintenance or stock world, and world-editing in all the ones that still run was a pain.

@mdhughes @ajroach42 this python MU* framework that @rmgr linked down-thread looks pretty promising on a first readthrough of some of their docs and flexible enough to accommodate a wide spectrum of use cases reasonably

@djsundog @mdhughes last time I tried to mud, this is one of two frameworks I played with. It was the easier to use and understand of the two, but it was very immature at that time.

@ajroach42 @djsundog I've tried it, I disliked that I had to install a bunch of libraries and SQL server, some kind of web server hookup.

I like classic MUD engines where you build, run, it has all its own parts inside.

@ajroach42 @djsundog @mdhughes If you start with LambdaCore, at least you'll know you're starting with a mature framework: it could rent a car these days!

(I ran a copy briefly as a toy. MU*s need more multi-user marshalling than I was willing to put in or could easily recruit at middle school, so it was short-lived.)

@aschmitz @ajroach42 @mdhughes I have a copy of LambdaCore around here for sure, possibly a couple - LambdaMOO was one of my first heady tastes of what really could be done if we wanted.

@aschmitz @ajroach42 @mdhughes it is a sizable lift to do anything non-trivial in scope with most every mu* engine ultimately though for sure, and the people part is an even bigger lift for sure

@djsundog @ajroach42 A hyper local MUD, mapped to a town, and where ever you happen to log in from, that is where you come online IN the MUD

@rgegriff @ajroach42


You are in the Ellijay Coffeehouse

order coffee




americano, no room

Pick-up or delivery?



Ellijay Makerspace, Suite 2AF

Sure thing - see you in about 15 minutes!

@djsundog @rgegriff once the mud is in place, wiring something like that up would be easy, for some value of easy at least.

@ajroach42 @djsundog @rgegriff

NGL, I would be delighted by an online ordering chatbot for neighborhood shops; with transport provided by the local courier/delivery/rideshare coop.

@zee @ajroach42 @rgegriff now you've got me thinking about an overlay protocol for running a jobbing clearinghouse over MUD, where the coffeehouse would dispatch a job to the board for local transport and providers would take the bid and handle the transport and have it all be over protocols that an 8-bit compy could handle with ease

@zee @ajroach42 @rgegriff

if we make it a bit more complicated than your average MUD and go more in the direction of a MOO (think: object-oriented programming in-world - scriptable persistent objects players can interact with) you could implement this as an observable process, where the coffeehouse orderbot runs a ticket out the backdoor to the alley where a group of deliverybots on bicycles are waiting until orderbot gives the ticket and the bag to the first deliverybot, who takes off on the most direct route to the delivery point at the same rate as the real-world delivery person is getting the turn by turn directions from their in-world "gps receiver" on their actual phone. is it necessary? nah, still need people handing over a bag to a person, so it's redundant, but it's cool af

@rgegriff @zee @ajroach42 this is one of those topics that my brain has spent a lot of cycles on over about 40 of my years, because it's the way my brain thinks it all should work - like, most every interconnected interaction we have could be based around this one foundational protocol that could then be progressively enhanced based on client capabilities and link speeds and uh this is the "good parts" of cyberpunk novels stuff but also completely approachable? there's no reason for these things not to be happening. we have more than enough technology and precedent, this is mostly a rewire job at best imo.

@rgegriff @zee @ajroach42 an in-world programmable text environment database and parser is the lowest common denominator of virtual worlds. all more complex worlds can be distilled back down, lossily, to the same interaction models, because at least one endpoint is always of class RealPerson. if you start from that end and model how you want the interactions to work, the rest becomes pretty apparent, I bet. Just need to take the time to sit down and work it out and do it. maybe a nice quiet testbed of a community. who knows, something like that maybe.

@djsundog @zee @ajroach42 I dunno about ALL interactions, unless one uses a VERY generous definition of "lossily".

I just dunno if text can adequately the shear sonic castrophony of a dozen children with big chungus avatars screaming meme phrases into a mic at you in VRChat

@rgegriff @zee @ajroach42 it can try! but more importantly, it can carry all the parts necessary for someone else to reconstitute the cacophony at another layer ;)

@djsundog @rgegriff @ajroach42 so long as the model is designed such that layering non-text interfaces over it is doable then I’m in ;).

@ajroach42 @rgegriff legit - this small mountain town could end up being ultra wired without even a heck of a lot of work, with some amazing potential for new things to spring into existence in the spaces between

@djsundog @ajroach42 *GASP*

A hyper local MUD, mapped to a town, and where ever you happen to log in from, that is where you come online IN the MUD.... AND IF YOU GO TO PLACES IN THE TOWN (like the coffeeshop) YOU CAN INTERACT WITH THEM IN WAYS THAT HAVE REAL WORLD CONSEQUENCES (like coffee being ordered)!!!!!!

@djsundog @ajroach42 Metaverse can fuck right off; THIS is the future of embodied interfaces

@rgegriff @ajroach42 when "high speed" internet became a thing, I was living in silicon valley, and my coffee shop of choice set up one of the first consumer webcams pointing out from the register so one could look and see how long the lines were before deciding to go down and get coffee and it was life altering. this is truly augmenting reality - the rest is gimmicky video game stuff to sell eyeballs to corps.

@rgegriff @ajroach42 that's not to say I don't want the gimmicky video game stuff, because it can be awesome too, being able to paint pixels over reality consensually, but it'll be a while yet before we have the right tools in the hands of the people instead of the profitseekers

@djsundog @ajroach42 let the profitseekers build the toys. We can subvert it like we always have.

@ajroach42 Gopherspaces, Geminipods, etc?
Also, as many programming languages as you can fit on, so that people can expand the tilde organically as a commnunity.
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