I'm not going to put us in a situation where there is a risk that we won't have enough power, or where leaving a computer turned on would drain our batteries.

I assume we will be generating enough power, and have enough in reserve, that this will be a non-issue.

But! If we're going to take these steps anyway, I might as well embrace the lifestyle.

So I'm trying to design a laptop or desktop that could reasonably last for more than 1 day on a small-ish battery.

@ajroach42 For modern desktop performance, I have a suspicion that Ryzen will produce mindblowing results when underclocked. Of course, depends on what a "small-ish battery" is, for whether that's enough.

@bhtooefr @ajroach42
Wait for the rizen mobile and apu solutions. They will give an atonishing results with a little power consumption

@Jolt2bolt @bhtooefr I'll keep my eyes open for that.

@bhtooefr Interesting. Thanks!

I don't need modern desktop performance, exactly. Something running on a Pi or Pi-adjacent platform would probably be fine, honestly.

I'm most concerned with the screen right now. What (off the shelf) displays are available with low power consumption?

@ajroach42 I wish e-ink screens were more readily available. That would be a pretty awesome low power screen

@Alamantus AGREED!

eink would pretty much be ideal for the scenario I'm envisioning, but I don't know of any eink panels available over like 2" on a side.

@ajroach42 maybe you could buy like a nook/kindle and hack it up for its screen?

@Alamantus From what I understand, it's not *impossible* but it's not easy to do something like that.

And most solutions I've seen have been pretty dependent on wireless (basically, you use the kindle or nook as a viewer for an ssh session, so the wireless is engaged all the time.)

@Alamantus I could always just use cannibalized Nokia displays and live my life in low res.

@ajroach42 lol that could work! Or maybe you could stitch together a few of those screens and have a little (folding?) screen panel!

@Alamantus @ajroach42
I wish portable laptops with e-ink screens based on low power SBCs were a thing. Potentially several days of battery life and usable outdoors!

@GrooveStomp @Alamantus @ajroach42 I'd go for a reflective memory-in-pixel LCD - faster refresh that way, and not much power consumption penalty.

I'd also like to get my hands on a Ryzen Mobile and try extreme underclocking and disabling cores, and see how low I can get the power while it's still usable.

@ajroach42 Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of modern TVs can be turned down very low.

As an example, this thing claims 2 watts typical, and the power brick is 24 watts max: http://www.lg.com/us/tvs/lg-22LJ4540-led-tv

I have the LG 22LF4520, an older version that has composite, and use it as a third monitor for some retro and RPi applications.

@bhtooefr Interesting! I had no idea modern TVs were so efficient.

So let's define terms here:

- Smallish battery = 7,000 - ~10,000 mAh, although I know 20k mAh USB batteries exist. (And yes, I know, 20k mAh is just 20Ah, but no one uses it that way.)
- More than 1 day = 8-12+ hours of continuous use, with wireless.
- Desktop = computer with detached mouse, keyboard, screen.
- Laptop = computer with mouse/keyboard/screen in one package (probably foldable.)

I use my laptop for around 6 hours a day, as far as I know.

So if I can get 12 hours of continuous use on a charge, that's 2 days.

Is this possible?

@ajroach42 @LaserScheme made a portable pi3 in a wooden case pretty easily just putting off-the-shelf things together?

Laser, what mileage does that get, have you measured?

@squirrel @LaserScheme Thanks!

@ajroach42 I have gotten close to that on my mac.

@jerry Right, but I would imagine that your battery on your mac is a bit bigger than what I'm looking at here.

It's not just that I want the battery to last a long time, it's that I want a *small* battery to last a long time.

I could always just get a bigger battery, but eventually, I'll max out the amount of power we can generate ourselves.

@ajroach42 understand. I guess my point is that my 2014 MBA can give me about 12 hours of use, if I keep the screen dim and watch out for runaway processes. I have a smallish 6” lcd for my rpi and a 20kmah battery- I could see how long they run for. Guessing it’ll be at least 12 hours.

@jerry I was getting about 4 hours with my 5" LCD but it was also set too brightly.

@ajroach42 ah - I have a feeling that those portable lcds sold for rpi are not designed with energy efficiency in mind. Now that you mention it, I recall that mine gets so hot that the plastic melted in one area because i left it on too long.

@jerry Yep! But there are efficient LCDs out there, I just gotta find one.

@ajroach42 take a look at netbooks. In particular the Asus Eee PC 900 and the Acer Aspire One ZG5.

They're dirt cheap now, use very little power and you can buy after-market batteries with a capacity far in excess of the original spec.

@bobstechsite That's a good point, and one I hadn't considered.

I'll have to investigate their average consumption.

@ajroach42 PiTop?

@thegibson Maybe!

I'll have to look in to the power usage.

@ajroach42 3 watt on the screen + rpi wattage would be total draw.

https://www.adafruit.com/product/3116

@thegibson The pi 0 w, with wif oni, looks like it consumes about 1.1 watts.

So that's 4.1 watts.

Now I gotta figure out how to calculate battery drain.

Back in a bit.

@thegibson If I have a draw of 4.1 watts on a battery thats rated 50 watt hours, that means it should run for 12+ hours, yeah?

I think that's how electricity works.

So that means the pi top is pretty much the ideal choice here.

@ajroach42 should be, yeah. But the zero W isn't an idea platform for performance... not a real problem necessarily, but just an fyi.

@thegibson I mean, it's usable.

It's definitely underpowered, but you don't feel it much if you stay in the terminal.

The pi 3 is certainly a better choice for performance, and I'd probably only take a 1-2 hour hit to switch to that.

I'll try them both in the coming weeks and see how it goes.

@ajroach42 oh yeah, its usable just set your expectations appropriately.

@thegibson Oh, for sure.

I used a model A+ as my primary computer for a few months. It's totally doable.

You gotta remember, though, I grew up on hand-me-down PCs, so I've never really expected blazing performance.

As long as it will at least open Netsurf, and give me a terminal, I'll be all set.

@ajroach42 @thegibson Concur. I've got a PiTop based on the Rpi3 and it's amazing. Only complaint is being unable to compile Pixilang on it.

@drwho @thegibson I've hesitated on the piTop because of the cost, but it sounds like they have a good package going.

@ajroach42 @drwho pitop ceed is cheap if you don't need the foldiness.

@thegibson @drwho Doesn't the ceed forgo the battery, too.

@ajroach42 @drwho i think so.

@thegibson @drwho See, the battery is an important component here.

I don't mind not folding, or byo keyboard/mouse, but I need the battery.

Either way, though, I'm all for supporting companies doing good stuff. I need to just go ahead and buy one soon.

(I think that's the first item on #tech sorted! Thanks for all the help y'all.)

@ajroach42 @drwho you could put a battery in the ceed...

@thegibson @drwho

Yes, but also no.

It's not as easy as just dropping a battery in line. You gotta wire up all the bits to the battery, and add in some kind of charge-through circuit, and just generally do work.

The charge through circuit is kind of a pain in the ass, and it's where I got tripped up on my pi hand-held.

Ultimately ended up having to shut the the down in order to plug it in or unplug it.

@ajroach42 @thegibson I have one and love it. It's worth it to be able to upgrade to a newer unit for pocket change.

Here's my writeup: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/entries/spending-quality-time-with-the-pi-top

@drwho @thegibson I'll take a look.

@technomancy

I'm engaged to be married, and my s/o will continue to have coverage at work, and will continue to have the job she has now.

For me, it's not an issue.

Otherwise, I would be really concerned.

@mwdowns
Chickens are suprisingly contentious in GA. There are a number of regulations around how much land you have to have in order to have them.

I haven't really looked in to the earthship design, I've heard about it from folks here, but I don't know much beyond that.

We've found a few places (already built) that we're considering. One specifically that I'm leaning towards.

If that falls through, we'll go from there.

@ajroach42
Well, roosters are contentious. ;) Cluckers, though. I'm sure rural Georgia would be even a bit easier than here in the middle of Atlanta.

@mwdowns For sure.

I really only know how the laws looked in Kennesaw and Marietta. But we were actually part of a big push in cobb county to legalize chickens a few years back.

I'll have to check on the area we're considering.

@ajroach42
Did you grow up there? I grew up in Roswell/Marietta.

@mwdowns That's neat!

No, I grew up in Dallas/Paulding.

Moved to Kennesaw in, I think, 2012? I dunno, that whole period is kind of a blur.

But yeah, I was born in Cobb. Lived there when I was really little. Moved around a lot, but mostly in paulding, until after highschool.

@DistroJunkie I'm not sure I follow?

@ajroach42
Trying(emphasis on trying😃) to inspire you to keep doing because I like it and would love to see more.

@DistroJunkie Oh! gotcha! I appreciate it.

There are so many obstacles that it's easy to get disheartened, but I'm mostly just imagining that I'm trying to design a life on the moon, and that makes it easier and more fun.

@ajroach42
18 years ago my wife, 2 children and one on the way moved to 20 acres we bought in 1992. We've raised bees, chickens, rabbits, goats sheep and cattle. We gardened and planted fruit and nut trees and Berry bushes. I've been self-employed, taken a part time retail job to help with money and been called back to the tech work force into a pretty good situation now. Good luck and don't give up when the chips are down. Pay as you go. Watch the Martian for inspiration.

@DistroJunkie I'm so glad to hear that someone else has had success with this.

Bees! I hadn't even thought about Bees! Oh, we're going to have Bees! and I'm so excited.

I haven't seen The Martian, but I read it when it was first published. That's a little rougher than I want to live, but it's not far off.

I'd colonize mars in a heartbeat.

@ajroach42
The movie is inspiring and pretty much fulfills what I ask myself anytime something breaks. "If this was the last one on the planet, how could I fix it?" Tough question in a throw-away society.

@ajroach42
And I forgot to mention that we lived entirely off the grid for 7 years. It's a long story but I managed to get very cross ways with the local REA. Being your own power company can be very fulfilling but also has drawbacks. The power company keeps spare equipment on hand and it can get expensive. If you plan to go solar, placement and angle are key and determines where and how you place your house if they go on the roof. I guess I should work on a blog to share.

@DistroJunkie I'd love that!

@Shutsumon not living the dream yet! Just planning for it right now.

I hope to be Living it in six months or so, but I’m not counting my chickens yet.

It’s not unsolicited advice, I specifically asked for suggestions!

I am entirely unfamiliar with the things you mentioned, but I will not be for long.

Thanks for sharing.

@Shutsumon that’s really neat.

I hadn’t considered farming chickens or fish, but I guess we could? Having ready access to fresh fish sounds like a great thing, tbh.

We’ll probably just start with potatoes and parsnips and chickpeas, though.

@ajroach42 potatoes are awesome food! One of the best all round nutritional packages on the planet.

@Shutsumon I’m not a vegetarian right now, although I have been in the past, and TBH, if I had enough potatoes, parsnips, and chickpeas, (and butter, and various sauces) I wouldn’t need anything else.

@Shutsumon also, I’m really not a fan of how Tootdon drops cws. :-/

@ajroach42 I like a bit more variety than that but I know what you mean. When I'm short of money I can live on rice, lentils and a bit of veg and be well (if boringly) fed

@ajroach42 gotta go to work now (live in the UK). So it'll be a few hours before I can toot more.

@ajroach42 for hydroponics the fish do two things... provide the fertilizer for the hydroponics (fish poop) and fresh fish

@Shutsumon I’ll dig in to the concept more. It sounds like a neat idea.

@dazinism Yeah, I imagine that short winter days would be a real bummer for solar power.

OTOH, what's the environmental impact of a woodburning stove? Could we also set up a woodburning generator, and go collect deadwood and twigs twice a week?

@ajroach42

Over the last few years I have become a #stove & a #biochar geek.

Its possible to build very clean burning stoves.

Also to use them to make biochar - which can do all kinds of wonderful things to soil and remove carbon from the atmosphere over pretty long cycles.

One I designed a couple of years back and documented quite well
http://www.appropedia.org/Forest_biochar_rocket_stove

#opensouce

Its