@kick That danger / risk is an interesting one.

Some people focus on strictly one element -- the State, or Corporations, or Terrorists, or Narcocriminals, or the Criminally Insane, or Griefers, or Stalkers / Exes.

It's kind of all of the above.

In some cases I'm not fully sure that it's simply having civic systems and rule of law which matter more.

But mostly it' the data, the ability to use and misuse it, or simply presuming data exist, that enables evil.

@enkiv2 @kragen @freakazoid

@kick I've been kicking around the idea of manifestation vs. latency. Sociologist Robert K. Merton used the terms in context of _functions_, but they're fundamental to information.

Some is manifest: immediately apparent, graspable, understood in totality.

Some is latent: the opposite in every way.

Paired with benefits and risks, it means we value manifest benefit and discount *both* latent risk and benefit. It's a built-in short-termism.

Not by human nature.

@enkiv2 @kragen @freakazoid

@kick That's simply how information works.

So with pervasive recorded fungible, manipulable, queryable, records, on tremendous numbers of people, you don't know what future motives, contexts, norms, values, power structures, etc., will be.

The problem with Google's policy of getting right up to the creepy line, is that that creepy line moves.

So does the Surveillance Data Risk Line.

And we don't know what parts will move which way for what people and data.

@enkiv2 @kragen @freakazoid

@dredmorbius @kick @enkiv2 @freakazoid Right. Today recreational marijuana is legal in California; 30 years ago it could end your career in many jobs, and even today it can get you executed in much of Asia. Who's to say what its legality or public perception will be in another 30 years? Similarly for abortion, divorce, adultery, job-hopping, capitalism, or opposition to global pervasive surveillance.

@kragen I think my periodic observations that numerous states within the US *still* don't have a legal minimum age for marriage annoys a fair portion of the Fediverse.

Moral values are profoundly fungible, over time. Sometimes in as little as a few years, but staggeringly so over decades and centuries.

I've reasons for believing we may be entering a period of higher flux in values serving as social identifiers, adopted as moral codes.

@kick @enkiv2 @freakazoid

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@dredmorbius @kragen @kick @enkiv2 The search for the optimal culture is a simulated annealing process and we're entering a "heating up" phase.

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